I love when the DP Challenge covers something I just wrote about – like here …
Right after I’m done listening to David Bowie’s “Fashion”
– I’m gonna rant a little bit.
About the Clothing Police –
Are we ready? Good – let’s get to it.
Recently, I read an article about how overjoyed a lot of folks in Texas were because a couple of the McDonald’s were banning people from coming in with ‘sagging pants, excluding toddlers aged 3 and under’ (but not man-babies). Even the commenters, who you can usually count on to show a particularly ugly shade of derision and disagreement, were funneling their hatred towards a resounding “Huzzah” for this ban.
It kind of alarms me – who cares if someone wants to walk with their pants down below their butts? They’re the ones that look like that; not me – so why would I care? And so vehemently? One person claimed it ‘disrespected women’. I’m not sure I agree. As long as their body parts are inside their boxers, why is that disrespectful to me? It’s not ME wearing it. I am in no way involved or affected by their clothing choices.
I don’t like that people are so quick to ban clothing in places and we are all so happy about it – it doesn’t hurt ANYONE if someone is wearing saggy trousers. It’s really about targeting a subculture within our society that people may not like and making ‘rules’ that subversively exclude them under the guise of some sort of clothing police. Why is it that we can wear boxer shorts as shorts but as soon as there is a pair of pants over the boxer that show it’s horrifying? I wear thermal underwear under my skirts in the wintertime and EVERYONE can see them. And as far as I know, all those people survived. I don’t much care about seeing people’s underwear.
And then it gets crazy
While some schools and businesses have sought to slap bans on other clothing, such as leggings,skinny jeans, and T-shirts with offensive slogans, saggy pants are the most commonly targeted piece of attire. In Texas alone, entire malls have banned people from wearing them, as has the Fort Worth, Texas, public bus system. Recently, more than a dozen Houston-area apartment complexes have instituted a fine of $100 or even eviction for renters who wear saggy pants on the properties.
Ok so now imagine that the next things banned are rainbow logos, Yarmulkes, bra straps, YOGA PANTS – and you now have to pay a FINE or you might be EVICTED from your apartment because someone decided they didn’t like you because you’re not heterosexual or you’re Jewish or they think you dress trashy, or you’re over 34 (Ok, I’m joking about the yoga pants, obviously…maybe).
In my opinion, banning fashion trends in public places – no matter how stupid – are pretty much opening the door for allowing a wide range of discrimination in the future. It reminds me of the famous quote by Paster Niemoller
“First They Came for the Jews”
By Pastor NiemollerFirst they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.
These kinds of bans, to me, are just history repeating itself. But there’s a solution – a way to break the chain without resorting to bans…
Ready?
Don’t like saggy pants? Don’t wear saggy pants. Easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy.
The Mercenary Researcher 
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Love this post, and I’m totally with you. It’s the thin edge of a thoroughly scary wedge.
But as a non-American, I’m also…well…gobsmacked, really. In a state where someone can come into Maccas armed to the teeth (as long as he’s in a suit, presumably) and potentially shoot up the entire store, they worry about saggy pants? Sorry, don’t get the priorities at all.
Thank you –
I wish I knew about some people’s priorities too – but as long as they’re well dressed…
I know, it’s a slippery slope. But as far as the pants go, it’s more about the statement they are making. Look at me, my pants are hanging off my butt and you can’t do anything about it. I guess there’s two sides, but I sure hate to see it.
It’s totally about the statement they’re making – and for me, the freedom to get to make it. I wore things out of the norm in high school for those same reasons – and if it tweaked/torqued my parents and other adults – even better 🙂 But once we ban one thing – it can fly out of control and before you know, we’re banning all sorts of things b/c we ‘don’t like them’ – thanks for reading and commenting.
Hmm, this is an interesting idea you’ve brought up. Of course we don’t want to start banning fashion statements, but you can take it too far the other way too, and say, “I should be able to go out in public naked. It’s not hurting anyone etc.” But as a society we’ve agreed that’s not O.K. so we have a law against it. Where do you draw the line?
Exactly – you draw the line about what’s actually against the law.
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As much as I hate seeing the saggy pants, you’re right about banning them. An apartment building?? A fine? Really? Is that even legal? I guess they can cite “public indecency” but until they get taken to court to clear this up, this kind of madness will continue. Are they going to ban mini-skirts and shorts on women too? Where does this end? Must we also cover our heads “or else”?
I know! Except we’re not allowed to cover our heads because of other prejudices too. It never ends when we allow these kinds of regulations –
The legality question is interesting – I bet it’s NOT
I can’t believe McDonalds is banning certain types of clothes. I think our local McDonalds would serve people in just their undies as long as they had money!
Right! Unfortunately, it is happening – and it’s kind of sad and ugly.
Rutabaga,
Being a natural-born rebel I totally agree with you; except for…
“In my opinion, banning fashion trends in public places – no matter how stupid they are – that are not actually indecent, are pretty much opening the door for allowing a wide range of discrimination in the future.”
It’s the “that are not actually indecent” part that I stumble on. Because now we’re talking about making a judgement call about decency. Who gets to make that call? Doesn’t that take us right back to the beginning where saggy pants and yoga pants are questioned as decent?
Isn’t “indecent” just another word for “that makes me uncomfortable”?
As soon an arbitrary judgement is made about decency, someone is going to feel oppressed, right? I might think wearing nothing at all is my right, and someone is going step up and call it indecent and probably throw me in jail. So where is the line? WHY is there a line?
I guess you got me thinking this morning…
Red
Good point, Red – I threw that in there (indecent part) to sort of cover the “well, if they’re crotch is visible or some nipplage is showing then blah blah blah” – but you are entirely correct. – that vagueness opens the door making subjective calls about what is ‘decent’ or ‘indecent’ –
Thanks for making ME think more about it.
That’s me, always kicking up dust…
Whoo hoo! Just not in my face 🙂
Wow, this is scary and mindbogglingly ridiculous! You are exactly right when you talk about escalation. The old example is of course the way things started in Nazi Germany, as you alluded to. It sounds extreme but many people celebrated the subtle changes and ban put in place early on, and before you know it they are banning the very thing you really dig doing! Yikes!
And really, who doesn’t enjoy spotting a fashion disaster?! Do we really want a world where everyone is impeccably dressed, in the same damn thing?! People are weird…
Didn’t know about this, thanks for sharing!
Rohan.
ps. And really? MacDonalds? Not the classiest join now is it?
Their 99 cent menu demands good fashion sense.
It is completely REDONKULOUS – and your example was spot-on. It starts with the small things that exclude the ‘others’ – until one day, you’re the ‘other’.
Personally I’m glad to know I’m entitled to your opinion. 🙂
I don’t get the baggy pants thing. Remember Back To The Future Part 2? In the future, they imagined, kids would wear their pant pockets inside out. I remember saying, “Come on! For crying out loud! They couldn’t come up with something better than that?”
Turns out they were right.
Hee hee –
You will get my opinion in droves if you’re not careful!
Yes, Saggy Pants are not my cuppa tea – but I wore many a wacky thing so I can’t deny others their ‘time in the sun’ 🙂
A thought provoking post indeed.
But what is at the core of wearing clothes in unorthodox ways? You may say it is draw attention to oneself and, as you have written, you care two hoots about that. But could it also have something to do with trying to subvert the established values that society goes by? If that be correct, what does it imply then? Could McDonald’s reaction be emanating from that?
Shakti
I wholeheartedly agree that saggy trousers are subverting the established norms. As were Mohawks and Doc Martin boots, as were denim jeans as were pants on women – our generations have been bucking the norm for, well, generations. To me, at the root of it, it is making a change to what is acceptable/the norm in a very rebellious way.
During all of these periods, I’m sure many establishments would have loved nothing more than to deny custom to unskirted women, denim wearing men, Mohawked youth etc. Because, to me, it is not about what people are wearing, it’s all about those ‘hooligans’ that are wearing them.
I don’t give two hoots about what others wear, but I give a lot of hoots about what I wear and my freedom to choose for myself what I wear. And others to have that choice.
I still content McDonald’s reaction (banning saggy trousers) is a way to keep a certain ‘element’ of society out of their restaurants. Next it could breast feeding women, or men holding hands etc. I guess my point is “when does it end?”
Thanks for your thoughtful comment!
Baga-baby, OH MY GOD! You are so right. Can’t we all just leave each other the hell alone?! Seriously, people. Look at your own freaking flaws and address them. Guess what?! The world will take care of itself. Let’s all mine our own lives for challenges and obstacles to overcome. I’m so tired of this penchant we humans have for regulating behaviors that have no business being regulated. OH! Let’s make government like 1000 times bigger. That’s the answer. Grrrr…..
I think people feel this need to control everything that makes them uneasy. Or just this need to control EVERYTHING.
We’d be ever so much better without that kind of muck.
It’s sad that many people aren’t happy unless they are outraged by something. I prefer not giving a sh*t, topped off with a big dose usually not even noticing stuff like this.
I like your point of view! But you’re right -so many people need drama and anger to get thru their days.
I’m of two minds on this. Banning inoffensive clothing IS a slippery slope. If you start there where will it end?
Secondly, it’s not only young black males who wear their pants thusly. It’s a LOT of young men. White, black, hispanic, Asian, etc. The problem with this particular sub-culture is it’s hip-hop. There’s nothing wrong with hip-hop…except for the fact that a lot of it is glorifying their so-called “thug life”..or being a gangsta.
I think the assumption is that if that type of apparel is banned then those “thugs” will simply not show up. That’s an asinine assumption, but I see where they’re coming from. Also, having apprehended my fair share of shoplifters over the years, I can tell you that baggy clothes are GREAT for hiding shit in.
Ultimately, though, the problem is what’s offensive to one person isn’t offensive to the other. Personally, I think wearing your pants below your ass is idiotic, but I’m not offended by it. If they want to spend the day pulled their pants halfway up every other step that’s their choice. But banning things has historically failed. I’m not sure why we keep trying to do it.
I would have to concur about most of this – but like you said it’s a slippery slope that leads to other issues ~ and it does look asinine – but it’s not for me to decide what some other person should wear – just like you said. Thanks for the thoughtful comment!
I occasionally have some rational input to add. 😉
Yup~
As long as the baggy pants, along with any underpants, don’t slide down to ankles and expose a hairy bottom, I’m fine with it.
hee hee..no one wants to see THAT.
Yes! I couldn’t agree more. And more often than not (I don’t know because I’m not American, just making a general assumption – I know, don’t crucify me) it’s actually about banning a particular type of person or element of the subculture more than it is about the actual item of clothing, or the actual piece of sidewalk art.
Exactly – somehow I knew you’d understand, Steph!
I’m pretty sure banning “saggy pants” is a polite way of banning “young, black men.” And, voila, it all becomes clear…
ta da!
“It’s really about targeting a subculture within our society that people may not like”—I think you hit it spot on right there. And because of that, it’s a slippery slope to start banning clothing items, whether or not one likes sagging pants. Or rainbow shirts, of which I was a proud owner back in the 80s…
hee hee – I rember those.. .I’m thinking more of the rainbow logos that indicate gay pride – but it can be any rainbow!
But yes – it’s one small step towards discrimination that might be pointed at YOU (well, maybe not you unless you get banned for man-shoes).
Oh, no, say it will never happen!!!
They’re coming for you, Rubin….
I see bunions in my future then. 😦
hee hee
My 78 year old mother LOVEs the fact that bra straps have become publicly acceptable 🙂 I haven’t tested her opinion on saggy pants, but I suspect she would only care about the behaviour of the wearer. Wonder what it’s like to have nothing more important to worry about than what other people are wearing! .
I know – we have actual REAL problems that need working on…saggy pants rates about a zero on the ‘seriousness’ scale!
My grandmother would have been SCANDALIZED!
I wanted to say that I didn’t really care what people wore, but after a summer of seeing shorty shorts aka random butt flesh, saggy pants seem downright conservative. Plus, it’s funny to see people walk in an attempt to keep their pants up. That duck waddle is SO cool.
I don’t like laws that govern the superficial and completely subjective.
Exactly – in this case it’s a ‘law’ that people ‘like’ because they don’t like saggy pants – but substitute something else as and changes the game entirely. It’s all about control and exclusion. At least in my opinion.
I live in a state that made national news when our legislative branch tried to ban sagging pants as a state law.
Yes, I am so proud. Point is, nothing surprises me anymore.
That’s not a waste of our tax dollars….
Actually, there have been some issues with high schools having to ban yoga pants.
Because the gals are under 34? Yoga pants are completely innocuous.
I don’t know, I can see them being in the inappropriate for school category. Here’s an article:
http://news.yahoo.com/high-school-dudes-don-yoga-pants-protest-rumored-134815515.html
I’m pretty hardcore about allowing people to wear what they want – so we’d have to respectfully agree to disagree 🙂
I actually wrote a post recently about my thoughts on school apparel/uniforms.
Thanks for the article link – I like a little subversive action from the kids regarding pushing the dress code/uniform envelope (as opposed the subversive in the post of today).
.
I totally agree with you………as long as people wear clothing, why should we care what it looks like. (Though those saggy pants do look like if the wearer makes one wrong move they could be down around their ankles in a flash :)).
I’ve seen a kid trying to run from a police officer only to get tangled in his own pants. So there is a use for them.
I think saggy pants are god awful ugly – but I wore clothing kept together with safety pins for years, so who am I to judge???
I’m not a fan of the saggy pants, but all of a sudden I want to wear them just because.
It’s kind of like reading a censored book…it makes it more attractive.
It’s another case of people with limited communication skills targeting the surface of a problem. Maybe they’ve had problems with people who wear saggy pants so they think everyone wearing savvy pants will cause problems. Instead of dealing with the PEOPLE involved (which takes conflict resolution skills) they take on the PANTS. It’s much easier to have a conflict with an object than it is to communicate with real, live people.
Well said! We do like a good band-aid solution in our culture.
It is much easier to have conflict with objects than people – you see connections in a very enlightened way, my friend.
I have to agree with Janet, Denise. It is Texas…
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Well said. I’m not a fan of the saggy pants, but then again I’m not a fan of a lot of the things people deem appropriate in public. But that doesn’t mean I think they should be banned, evicted or fined for it. But I can tell you it does no favors for their first impression.
I’m not denying that – I’m just more concerned that those kinds of bans will lead to other things.
That’s very true. If we ban these things, what’s to stop them from spreading the bans to other things, like where we can work, what we can read, what we’re allowed tosay…the list goes on. Plus, as you mentioned from all the comments on that Texas McDonalds, this only seems to be fueling and spreading hate.
Agreed!
………..and of course, don’t live in Texas 🙂
Hee hee…
Definitely targeting the subculture.
Though as an extension of this (since saggy pants have been around for a while), I’ve seen people turn up for interviews in suits with the pants down.
Any thoughts on that?
Strip club or Costco?
Sadly, office. And maybe I’m just above a certain age, but I was apalled.
I wonder how long it will take for culture to reorient that that style becomes the norm.
if they choose to come with pants down, they probably won’t get the job because they didn’t dress for the interview – that’s the end result.
I doubt it will become the norm – it’s just a phase.